The Voices of War

11. Harry Moffitt - A Humble Warrior

My guest today is Anthony ‘Harry’ Moffitt, a recently retired veteran of the Australian Defence Force where he served for nearly 30 years. Most of that time, he has spent in the Special Air Service Regiment, more commonly known as the SAS. During his time, he completed 11 active service deployments amassing nearly 1000 days on Special Operations globally.
Since leaving the Army, Harry has become a registered psychologist and runs a human performance consultancy working with sports teams, the military and industry. He is also the Asia-Pacific Director for the Mission Critical Team Institute. He is also the lead singer and songwriter for the rock band The Externals.
Harry also recently authored his memoir, 'Eleven Bats', which is a book about his military service, the SAS and his love of cricket. Along with the book, some of the other topics we covered are:
Harry's journey into the SAS
The first years of the war in Afghanistan 
How strategy translates into tactics or how it fails to do so
Importance of understanding the human terrain
Change in how the SAS came to be used 
The price of war paid by those most-vulnerable
Selecting the right people for the SAS
The act of killing and its aftermath 
Ethics of war and its link to mental wellbeing
The price paid by family members of those who serve
The power of cricket on deployments 
The role of education in a soldier's life 
This was a hugely satisfying and rich discussion and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did recording it. 
Harry's book 'Eleven Bats' is available at:
https://www.dymocks.com.au/book/eleven-bats-by-anthony-harry-moffitt-9781760877842
Harry's podcast with Deane-Peter Baker that we mentioned is available as episode #18 at: https://missioncti.com/teamcast/
Finally, the Externals recently released their new single 'The Hell Beyond' on Spotify. You can find it at: https://open.spotify.com/album/5NNRcziDrTnwr6orAT6R3N
 

10. Cian O’Driscoll - A Philosopher’s Take on Just War Theory

My guest today is Cian O’Driscoll. He is originally from Limerick, in the Southwest of Ireland where he completed his schooling and undergraduate degree, before moving to Nova Scotia, and then Wales, for Grad School. He completed his PhD at the University of Wales, Aberystwyth, and worked at the University of Glasgow before joining the Australian National University, Canberra in 2020. 
His principal area of research is the intersection between normative international relations theory and the history of political thought, with a particular focus on the ethics of war.
His published work examines the development of the just war tradition over time and the role it plays in circumscribing contemporary debates about the rights and wrongs of warfare. These themes are reflected in his two monographs: Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2019) and The Renegotiation of the Just War Tradition (New York: Palgrave, 2008).
Cian has also co-edited three volumes and his work has been published in leading journals in the field, including International Studies Quarterly, the European Journal of International Relations, the Journal of Strategic Studies, the Journal of Global Security Studies, Review of International Studies, Ethics & International Affairs, and Millennium.
Some of the topics we covered today are:
Cian’s research on the narratives that the Bush and Blair administrations used to frame the 2003 war in Iraq
Reflections on the widening of the jus ad bellum (justifications for war) since the end of the Cold War and its consequences
Exploration of Gulf War 1 as a ‘just war’ and the potential irony of its aftermath
The inability of Just War Theory, try hard as it might, to sanitise war
The challenge faced by military leaders when wrestling with Just War Theory
‘Just War is just war’
I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion with Cian, and hope you do as well. I recently finished his book that we frequently mention, Victory: The Triumph and Tragedy of Just War, and can warmly recommend it to anyone contemplating the complexities of Just War Theory—the principle tool used by Western militaries to manage conflict. 

9. Philippa (Pip) Weiland - Perspectives of an Army Psychologist

My guest today is Pip Weiland. She commissioned into the Australian Army Psychology Corps in 2003, and in her career performed diverse roles across clinical, organisational, professional development, research and staff positions. She has deployed to the Solomon Islands, Iraq, and to Afghanistan on two occasions. Whilst deployed to Afghanistan, she was the lead in the critical incident response to Australian Army soldiers killed in action. She ended her military career in 2020, as the Commanding Officer, 1st Psychology Unit.
Pip was awarded a Conspicuous Service Cross in the 2018 Queen’s Birthday Honours for the superior management of several sensitive, high-profile matters including the immediate psychological response to witnesses to the death of a soldier in training.
Pip is passionate about evidence-based treatments and has a special interest in psychological resilience and the mental health issues associated with exposure to combat. She is now a Regional Director for Open Arms – an organisation focused on providing mental health and wellbeing support for current and ex-serving Australian Defence Force personnel and their families.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Psychological screening on operations
Stigma surrounding psychological treatment
Truth about ongoing employability despite mental health challenges
Critical incident management in response to death on operations
The importance of the ‘tribe’ for mental wellbeing
The process of identity creation in the military
Suicide rates in defence members
Treatment of mental health challenges
Services offered by Open Arms
This was another hugely insightful episode that touched on many aspects of mental health challenges experienced by veterans and their families. For our Australian audience, particularly around ANZAC Day, please look out for one another and reach out to any of the numbers below if you or someone you know may need a helping hand:
All-hours Support Line
(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)
 
Open Arms (VVCS)
1800 011 046
https://www.openarms.gov.au/
 
1800 IMSICK
(1800 624 608)
 
Defence Community Organisation (DCO)
Defence Family Helpline
1800 624 608
http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/
 
Lifeline
13 11 14
https://www.lifeline.org.au
 
Suicide Call back service
1300 659 467
https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au
 
Soldier On
1300 620 380
www.soldieron.org.au

8. Brendan Cox - A Lifetime of Service

My guest today is Brendan Cox. He has served in the Australian Army for 25 years, first as a soldier, and later as an officer in the Infantry Corps. During his time, he has done a number of operational tours including to Bosnia, East Timor and Afghanistan. For his exemplary service, he has received a number of awards, including a Commendation for Distinguished Service in the Australia Day Honours List in 2014. 
Brendan is now the Chief Executive Officer of Legacy Brisbane, an organisation that supports families who are experiencing hardship due to the loss or injury of a loved one while serving in the armed forces. Some of the topics we covered are:
Brendan’s first encounter with death on operations while in Bosnia
Healing our own wounds by helping others
Responsibilities of command
Importance of staying engaged with families while loved ones are deployed
Building partnerships with foreign forces
Importance of understanding the human terrain
Legacy and its work with families
Legacy and its work with youth
As you will hear, this was a truly humbling conversation and I encourage you to support the work done by Legacy. You can find more details on:
https://www.legacy.com.au/
 
 
 
 

7. Tomislav Cvitanusic - From Soldier to Extreme Athlete

My guest today is Tomislav (Tomo) Cvitanusic. He is a well-known figure across the Balkans and beyond, not only for being an extreme alpinist and long-distance athlete, but also for his promotion of cooperation and unity across the region. As one of the many who served in the Bosnian Army from 1992-1995, Tomo spent the whole war in his city, Sarajevo. At the end of the war, he became a beacon of positivity across the region by promoting tolerance, hard work and patience. He was one of the few who in the early days after the war sought to become the change he wanted to see in his community. This quest for betterment has led him to conquering some of the world’s highest mountains including Mt. Blanc, GrossGlockner, Elbrus, Ararat, Aconcagua, Denali, and the famous Matterhorn. He has completed more than fifteen marathons around the world, including four of the "World’s Major Marathons” in Berlin, Boston, NYC and London. Recently, he also became the first person from the former Yugoslav republics to complete the prestigious and most extreme triathlon in the world, NORSEMAN in Norway. As you will hear, we talked about some of his experiences from the war and how these shaped who he became. Some of the topics we covered are:
What life inside a war zone is really like
Banality of conflict and how we can rebuild trust in disrupted communities.
Survival of humanity and decency inside a war zone
Where Bosnia and Herzegovina is today, more than 25 years after Dayton
Links between life in a war zone and endurance sports
Tomo’s views about the transience of life and responsibility to help others
I walked away from this conversation inspired to find new ways to contribute to my community. I wish you the same and hope that you enjoy this episode.

6. Paul Marshall - On Conflict Recovery, Combat Support and Peacekeeping

My guest today is Paul Marshall. He is a recently retired British Army officer who spent 34 years in uniform. He has deployed on multiple military operations all over the world including on combat, peacekeeping and post-conflict recovery operations. He started his career in South Korea as a UN observer before spending time in Bosnia and Herzegovina during some of the most difficult times of the war. He also took part in both Gulf wars as part of the fighting forces. In the subsequent years he supported a number of global crises and natural disasters before once again returning to Bosnia and Herzegovina in 2014, this time in the prestigious role of United Kingdom Defence Attaché to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Some of the topics we discussed are:
Tensions at the DMZ between South and North Korea
Management of Iraqi prisoners of war
Scars of war among some of his peers
The aftermath of the Ahmići massacre in Bosnia and Herzegovina
The importance of immediate support during natural disasters
Understanding of the local context as a force multiplier
As you will hear in the episode, we make reference to the Ahmići massacre in Bosnia and Herzegovina. You can find further information here:
https://ahmici.sensecentar.org/
Also, I made reference in the discussion about Bosnia and Herzegovina being the highest recipient per capita of foreign aid. Here is the data from The World Bank. When looking at the figure, keep in mind that the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina is around 3.3-3.35 million.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ODAT.CD?locations=BA

5. Dr Mike Wessells - On Child Soldiers

My guest today is Dr Mike Wessells, Professor at Columbia University in the Program on Forced Migration and Health.
Over the decades, Mike has conducted extensive research on the holistic impacts of war and political violence on children, and he is author of the book ‘Child Soldiers: From Violence to Protection’.
Currently, Mike is the lead researcher on inter-agency and multi-country action research on strengthening community-based child protection mechanisms. He also regularly advises UN agencies, governments, and donors on issues of child protection and psychosocial support, including in communities and schools.
Some of the topics we covered during our conversation are:
Ongoing confusion about the definition of Child Soldiers
Some of the push and pull factors that encourage child soldiering
How children deal with trauma
Misunderstanding of Western interventions
Importance of culturally appropriate interventions
Agency of children in war
Healing and overcoming trauma
Self-care needs of humanitarian workers
This was a very confronting conversation and I remain deeply grateful to Mike for sharing his invaluable lessons on this important topic. As you will hear, not only is Mike an eminent expert on the subject, but he is also deeply compassionate and a true gentleman.
You can find out more about Mike’s work and his publications on:
https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/people/our-faculty/mgw2106
And you can find out about his book ‘Child Soldiers: From Violence to Protection’ here:
https://www.amazon.com/Child-Soldiers-Protection-Michael-Wessells/dp/0674032551
 
 

4. Ashley Judd – On Combat, Mental Health And The Road To Recovery

Today I’m proud to be bringing to you an episode on a topic that, as an Army officer, I think is not discussed enough—Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) amongst war veterans. My guest, Ashley Judd, and I went through our Army officer training at the Royal Military College – Duntroon together, way back in 2007. Since then, Ash spent 8 years in the Army and is a veteran of the war in Afghanistan. Due to his experiences of that war, and his actions and responsibilities in the line of duty, Ash faced significant challenges and was ultimately diagnosed with PTSD. In the years following, he became somewhat of a spokesperson for lifting the veil of shame on PTSD. I think this is an incredibly important conversation, both because Ash spoke so candidly and openly about his experience, but also because it sheds much light onto the fact that recovery is possible.
Some of the things we covered are:
Ash’s reasons for joining the military
The training he received and how effectively it had prepared him for combat
The challenge and privilege of command
His experience of combat
His struggle with mental illness
Speaking out publicly and accompanying fears
Recovery and finding meaning again
As promised in the episode, here are the links to Ash’s excellent TedX Talk at the London Business School:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0NMDlkarvE
as well as to the ABC Insight episode I referred to during out conversation:
https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/11868227710/insight-s2012-ep30-insight-2012-ep-30
Lastly, for my Australian audience, military and otherwise, if you or someone you know are suffering, there is a lot help available. Below are the contacts and websites of some of the many agencies offering support. For my audience around the world, please look for help. Even if there are no services in your area, the internet has opened up many previously unavailable avenues. As Ash says in the episode, you are important, so please take the necessary first step and look out for yourself and each other.  
All-hours Support Line
(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)
 
1800 IMSICK
(1800 624 608)
 
Defence Community Organisation (DCO)
Defence Family Helpline
1800 624 608
http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/
 
Open Arms (VVCS)
1800 011 046
https://www.openarms.gov.au/
 
Lifeline
13 11 14
https://www.lifeline.org.au
 
Suicide Call back service
1300 659 467
https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au

3. Dr Mike Martin - a Soldier-Philosopher

Today I’m speaking with Dr Mike Martin, a former British Army Officer who has since become a prominent speaker and writer on conflict, particularly its causes. Mike has published several books on the subject, including ‘An Intimate War: An Oral History of the Helmand Conflict 1978-2012’—which landed him in some hot water—and ‘Why We Fight’, a deep dive into the evolutionary reasons for war and conflict. More recently, Mike has been engaged by the Australian Defence Force to deliver a course on the impact cultural understanding can have on a conflict as a way to improve our collective understanding of the wars we have been a part of and are likely to be involved with in the future. Some of the topics we covered on this podcast include:
His reasons for delving into the profession of arms, both as a participant as well as a scholar of it
The true nature of war
Sense of belonging and the pull of ideology
The importance of the local context, particularly when fighting a war
The failings of the war in Afghanistan
Mike’s personal battle with getting his book ‘An Intimate War’ published
The five social problems we need to solve to prevent violence
The current crisis in the United States
You can find out more about Mike and his work on http://www.threshedthought.com/, including information on his books ‘An Intimate War – An Oral History of the Helmand Conflict 1978-2012’, ‘Crossing The Congo’ and ‘Why We Fight’.

2. Dejan Mujkanovic - from Bosnian refugee to Australian Army Officer

My guest today is Dejan Mujkanovic. He is an Australian Army officer with 19 years of military experience. He has completed several tours of Afghanistan and also deployed to East Timor. He was born in Bosnia in 1980 and experienced the full brunt of the civil war in the 90’s. His hometown of Prijedor made global news due to the campaign of ethnic cleansing committed by the Bosnian Serb forces seeking to forcefully remove the Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat populations from the area. As a result of these crimes, many of Dejan’s extended family members were lost in concentration camps, which, sadly, includes his father Senad Mujkanovic who was killed in the Omarska concentration camp in 1992. In the ensuing chaos, Dejan was separated from his mother and his siblings, and they have lived apart ever since. During his journey, he was forced to spend over two years in various refugee camps in Croatia and Austria and in late 1995, he was fortunate to settle in Australia with his grandmother. Now, 25 years later, Dejan is married and a proud father to his son. Some of the topics we covered are:
- His reason for joining the Army
- How the war in Bosnia started for him
- The loss of his father and other members of his family
- Fleeing the war and time as a child refugee
- Issues of identity
- Genocide and collective guilt
- The idea of forgiveness
- What good soldiering looks like
- Settling in Australia
- How his experience influenced his military service

1. Podcast Introduction

A short introduction to this podcast, how it came about, and what we'll be exploring in the episodes to come. 
Thank you for joining me. Maz