The Voices of War

36. Arjan Verdooren - ‘Cultures don‘t meet, people do‘

Today, I spoke with Arjan Verdooren, an intercultural communication consultant and lecturer. He is also the co-author, together with Dr Edwin Hoffman, of the book ‘Diversity Competence - Cultures Don’t Meet, People Do’, which is a deep dive into improving our individual and collective intercultural competence. Arjan has authored various other publications on intercultural communication, intercultural competence, cultural diversity, and multiculturalism. We touched on many topics, such as the origins of ‘studying’ culture; cultural relativism, universalism, and pluralism; meaning behind ‘cultures don’t meet, people do’; the TOPOI model; building rapport and how to reduce intercultural miscommunication.
Additional episodes that explore the importance of dialogue and communication are:
John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu - On AUKUS, US/China relations and growing tensions
Stephanie Speck - Strategic Communication: A Tool For Change
Adam Cooper - Mediation, Diplomacy and Digital Conflict
Roger Noble - A Major General’s Perspective
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Full show notes:
My guest today is Arjan Verdooren, who has a background in communication studies and works as a consultant and lecturer in the field of intercultural communication and competence. He is associated with the Royal Tropical Institute, a knowledge centre in Amsterdam and until recently lectured at the Master in Communication program at the University of Gothenburg. He is the co-author, together with Dr Edwin Hoffman, of the book ‘Diversity Competence - Cultures Don’t Meet, People Do’, which is a deep dive into improving our individual and collective intercultural competence. Arjan has authored various other publications on intercultural communication, intercultural competence, cultural diversity, and multiculturalism.
Throughout the fifteen years he has spent in the field, he has consulted with various organisations ranging from state departments to multinationals and NGO’s on harnessing more effective international and intercultural cooperation. He is a frequent speaker on these topics and is someone who connects theory with practitioners facing intercultural situations every day in the field.  
Some of the topics we covered are:
Arjan’s entry into the field of intercultural communication
Where the idea of ‘culture’ come from
Cultural relativism, universalism, and pluralism
Dealing with ethical challenges of cultural relativism
Meaning behind ‘cultures don’t meet, people do’
Defining ‘culture’
The TOPOI model of communication
Cultural models as refence points
Power and utility of narratives we tell ourselves and others
Importance of building rapport
Focusing on why people do what they do
Use of TOPOI in a real-life setting
Best way to prepare for intercultural engagement

35. John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu - On AUKUS, US/China relations and growing tensions

Today I spoke with John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu. John is an outspoken commentator and researcher on topics such as Australian military history and strategy, public policy, security, defence, and international relations. Qinduo Xu is a political analyst who frequently contributes to international media outlets on China’s rise and its interactions with the rest of the world. We discussed roots of the AUKUS partnership, difference in Australian and Chinese perspectives, China’s economic and military growth, COVID-19, Double standards, lack of transparency, projection of strength, culture and many other topics.
You can follow John and Qinduo on their respective Twitter accounts @JohnBlaxland1 and @xuqinduo.
I briefly mentioned an article I recently published on the state of Western democracy, grey zone warfare by authoritarian states and the dangers of social media. You can view the article here.
 
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Full show notes
My guests today are John Blaxland and Qinduo Xu. My audience might already be familiar with John Blaxland, who’s previously been on the show. He is a Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies and former Head of the Strategic and Defence Studies Centre at the Australian National University.
Prior to his academic pursuits, John enjoyed an extensive career as an Intelligence Officer in the Australian Army including as the principal intelligence staff officer for the Australian contingent deployed to East Timor in 1999, as the Director Joint Intelligence Operations at Headquarters Joint Operations Command and as Australia’s Defence Attaché to Thailand and Myanmar. John is an outspoken commentator and researcher on topics such as Australian military history and strategy, public policy, security, defence and international relations.
Qinduo Xu hosts Dialogue Weekend at China Global Television Network (CGTN), a talk show that offers in-depth analyses of current affairs. He also works as a producer of the TODAY show at China Radio International. As a political analyst who follows Chinese foreign policy closely, Qinduo frequently contributes to international media outlets such as The New York Times, Press TV, NPR, Turkey’s TRT, ABC, RT, and others.
Qinduo majored in both English and international studies. His focus of research has been on China’s rise and its interactions with the rest of the world. Qinduo has spent years in the US as the chief correspondent for China Radio International and one year in Australia as a visiting scholar at the University of Melbourne. He is a Senior Fellow at the Pangoal Institution and an Adjunct Professor at Renmin University of China.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Origins and impact of AUKUS from the Australian and Chinese perspective
China’s economic and military growth
The primacy of China and US relationship
China’s overseas influence operations
Why China did not accept responsibility for COVID-19
Double standards, lack of transparency, and projection of strength
Importance of perception, history, and culture
Role of globalisation in deteriorating relationships
Defusing tensions
Chinese perspective of its role and contribution to the world
Climate change and global challenges
Need for increased dialogue between US, China, and other nations

34. Tom and Jen Satterly - The All Secure Foundation

Today, I spoke with Tom and Jen Satterly. Tom is a highly decorated combat veteran who has spent 25 years in the US Army, with the last 20 in Delta Force. Jen was an award-winning filmmaker and photographer for who has spent several years as Director of Film and Photography at an elite Special Operations training company fully embedded with Navy SEALS, Green Berets, and Army Rangers. We talked about Tom’s first combat experience in Mogadishu, the price of service paid by those in uniform and their families, trauma, recovery, their joint non-profit ‘All Secure Foundation’, and many other topics.  
You can listen to previous episodes that deal with healing from PTSD, moral injury, and trauma here:
Steve Dennis - On getting shot, kidnapped and the court case that sent tremors through the humanitarian aid industry
Will Yates and Joe McCleary - On Trial for War Crimes: A Soldier’s Experience
Philippa (Pip) Weiland - Perspectives of an Army Psychologist
Ashley Judd – On combat, mental health and the road to recovery
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Full notes:
My guests today are Tom and Jen Satterly. Tom is a highly decorated combat veteran, having served in the US Army for 25 years, the last 20 in Delta Force. Tom retired as the units Command Sargent Major or its most senior soldier. During his time, he has been involved in, and led, some of the US most important military campaigns. He fought in Mogadishu and was portrayed in the Oscar Winning film: ‘Black Hawk Down’, which was the longest sustained firefight of US forces since Vietnam. He has deployed countless times and led hundreds of missions including the capture of Saddam Hussein. He is the recipient of numerous medals including a Silver Star, 4 Bronze Stars, 1 of which was for Valorous acts. Beyond Tom's invaluable service in uniform, he continues to fight and win his own "silent war". Having come within seconds of taking his own life and becoming a veteran suicide statistic, today, Tom is on his most important mission to date with his wife and partner, Jen. Together, they are co-Founders and co-CEOs of the ‘All Secure Foundation’, which I’ll mention more about in a second. Tom also authored a best-selling book titled, "All Secure: A Special Operations Soldier's Fight to Survive on the Battlefield and the Homefront" available here.
Jen was an award-winning filmmaker and photographer for 15 years, spending the last three as Director of Film and Photography at an elite Special Operations training company fully embedded with Navy SEALS, Green Berets, and Army Rangers in large-scale realistic training missions. During her time with Special Operations warriors, Jen began to see a pattern. As it turns out, many were dealing with complex Post-Traumatic Stress. This realisation motivated her to help them find a way to constructively deal with Post-Traumatic Stress and its symptoms, which sadly includes isolation, anxiety, severe depression, anger issues and a long list of medical challenges. Jen made it her mission to not only help the service member but also their families who often suffer from secondary PTS. As a result, Jen stepped away from the camera and became a certified health and wellness coach. She recently published a book titled ‘Arsenal of Hope: Tactics for Taking on PTSD, Together’, available here. Alongside with Tom, she co-Founded and co-CEOs the ‘All Secure Foundation’, a non-profit that helps Special Operation warriors and their families reconnect and heal on the Homefront. ‘All Secure’ has been recognised as a top-rated non-profit by Great Non-profits 4 years in a row and has grown to serve thousands of combat families.
Some of the topics we covered include:
How Tom and Jen’s paths crossed
The battle of Mogadishu
Reality of combat
The civilian perspective of life in the Special Forces
Acceptance of trauma and the journey of healing
Impact of service on families and secondary PTSD
The cost of service in the Special Forces
The need to focus on mental health
Moral injury
Birth of the ‘All Secure Foundation’
A new purpose in life

33. Gregg D. Caruso - On the Illusion of Free Will, Myth of Meritocracy and the need to rethink our Justice Systems

My guest today is Gregg D. Caruso, who is a Professor of Philosophy at SUNY Corning. He’s also Visiting Fellow at the New College of the Humanities, and Honorary Professor of Philosophy at Macquarie University, Sydney. Gregg is also a Co-Director of the Justice Without Retribution Network housed at the University of Aberdeen School of Law.
His research focuses on free will, moral responsibility, punishment, philosophy of law, jurisprudence, social and political philosophy, moral philosophy, philosophy of mind, moral psychology, and neurolaw. He’s published numerous books, including Rejecting Retributivism: Free Will, Punishment, and Criminal Justice (2021); Just Deserts: Debating Free Will (w/Daniel C. Dennett) (2021); Free Will and Consciousness: A Determinist Account of the Illusion of Free Will (2012); Exploring the Illusion of Free Will and Moral Responsibility (2013); Science and Religion: 5 Questions (2014) and others.
He joins me today to talk about free will, free will scepticism, moral responsibility, and our collective views on punishment. Some of the topics we covered are:
Gregg’s journey into philosophy of free will
Dominant positions in the free will debate
Explaining free will scepticism
Social determinants and their impact on outcomes
The mythology of meritocracy and the idea of being ‘self-made’
The illusion of the ‘self’
Free will scepticism, justice, and geopolitics
Impact of the situational factors, environment, and context on behaviour
Importance of understanding causes that lead to genocide, atrocities, and crimes
Gregg’s ‘Public Health Quarantine Model’ explained
This was a fascinating episode that will hopefully leave you with more questions than it answered. To find out more, you can visit Gregg's website here.  

32. Steve Dennis - On getting shot, kidnapped and the court case that sent tremors through the humanitarian aid industry

My guest today is Steve Dennis. After working as a civil engineer in Canada in the late 1990’s, Steve started working as a field-based humanitarian aid worker in 2002. He worked in Africa, Asia and the Middle East, for various NGOs and UN agencies, which include the World Food Programme, Médecins Sans Frontières, United Nations Department of Safety and Security, and others.
In 2012, while working with an organisation in Kenya, armed men attacked a convoy Steve was travelling in. In the attack, one staff member was killed, and Steve and two other colleagues were wounded. He and three colleagues where then kidnapped by the armed militia only to be rescued days later in another violent gunfight.
In 2015, Steve won a precedent-setting court ruling of gross negligence against his former employer, revealing a disturbingly high level of disregard for staff safety within the organisation. The court also shed some much-needed light on the need to care for injured staff, which is another topic rarely discussed.
Steve now works with individuals and organisations along their path from injury and grievance to recovery, as well as skills development and growth. This work is not only related to better navigating the landscapes of an organisation’s duty of care and risk management, but also capacity development in program management, leadership, and breaking stigmas on mental health issues.
Some of the topics we covered include:
Steve’s entry into the humanitarian aid profession
Life of a humanitarian aid worker
Challenges of working in a refugee camp in Kenya
Importance of planning and appropriate qualifications
Getting shot and kidnapped
The rescue
Trauma, PTSD and tools that help
The legal battle
Inadequate health and legal frameworks for humanitarian aid workers
Impact of Steve’s precedent-setting legal win
Steve’s current role helping others avoid similar challenges
You can find out more about Steve and his work here, and watch a documentary about his kidnapping here.

31. Stephanie Speck - Strategic Communication: A Tool For Change

My guest today is Stephanie Speck, who has lived and worked in more than 20 countries, accumulating almost 25 years experience as a strategy and communications adviser, supporting democratic reform in fragile and conflict-affected settings. Stephanie’s expertise includes the design and programming of cross-government reform strategies, strategic communication, and advocacy initiatives; public policy development; counter-terrorism communication strategies, government public affairs and crisis communications. 
Stephanie has launched TV channels (including the Middle East’s most popular, MBC Action); was Deputy Director of the first Palestine Investment Forum; led a US$1billion governance reform portfolio in Afghanistan; developed maternal health campaigns in the Vietnamese/Chinese border regions; worked to eliminate family voting in Albania; reported on disasters—earning her the Australian Humanitarian Award for her work post the Indian Ocean tsunami; and held several high-level public diplomacy and spokesperson roles, including as Senior Adviser to the Senior Minister of Afghanistan, the President of Somalia and the Prime Minister of Iraq. 
Stephanie has just finished almost three years leading communication and advocacy initiatives for the UN Office for Disaster Risk Reduction, in Geneva. 
Some of the topics we covered include:
Stephanie’s introduction to mass violence at the age of 9
Strategic communication as a tool for change
‘Those who tell the stories rule society’
Revolution in communication methods
Transparency and visibility in communication essential for trust
When expectations and reality don’t align
Manipulation vs. Strategic Communication
Values vs. Interests in international development
Role of social media in strategic communication
Holy trinity of government regulation, individual responsibility, and social media companies to tackle echo chambers
Understanding the local context
Stephanie’s view on the current situation in Afghanistan  
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30. Adam Cooper - Mediation, Diplomacy and Digital Conflict

My guest today is Adam Cooper. He is the Director of Digital Conflict for the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, or HD. Adam has been with HD for over a decade and now oversees a global programme of work mediating offensive cyber operations and disinformation on social media. He also hosts ‘The Mediator’s Studio’ podcast, which provides some incredible insights into what happens behind closed doors when peace agreements are negotiated.
Prior to his current role, Adam managed HD’s Myanmar operations. And before joining HD, he coordinated election observation missions in Asia and served as an adviser to former Maldivian President Mohamed Nasheed. He has degrees from Oxford University and the Harvard Kennedy School. Adam is a Thai and UK national and currently lives in Brussels. Some of the topics we covered are:
Adam’s journey into the world of conflict negotiation
Private mediation and the work of HD
Why confidentiality is important when looking for alternatives to military only solutions
Straddling multiple diplomacy tracks
Lessons learned from senior negotiators
‘Peace is made in stages’
Dangers of not negotiating with the ‘enemy’
Adam’s experience in Myanmar
Digital conflict, digital threats and understanding the problem
Challenge of establishing norms of online behaviour
‘Freedom of speech’ vs. ‘Hate speech’
Responsibility of social media organisations
Experimentations of ‘Peace Tech'
To find out more about the 'ups and downs' of conflict mediation, listen to 'The Mediator's Studio', available here.

29. The Story Behind ‘The Voices Of War‘

Since starting 'The Voices of War', many people have asked me how this podcast came about.A few weeks ago, I was interviewed by Pascal Gemperli who runs the popular 'Conflict transformation, Peacebuilding and Security' (CoPeSe) group. Pascal was kind enough to give me ample time and space to share a bit of my own background and the story behind The Voices of War podcast. We touched upon my early experiences as a refugee, life in the Army, the story behind starting CrossFit Sarajevo, my exposure to the world of development work and ultimately the motivations behind the podcast.Many thanks to Pascal for this opportunity. You can find out more about his 40,000+ members community, 'Conflict transformation, Peacebuilding and Security', at www.copese.org/ or by searching for CoPeSe on LinkedIn, Facebook or YouTube.
 
 

28. Sahar Fetrat - On the plight of women and girls in Afghanistan

My guest today is Sahar Fetrat, a young Afghan living and studying in London. Born in Afghanistan but forced to flee when she was only one year old, Sahar returned with her family to Kabul when she was 10 and stayed there until graduating from university. She then moved to Budapest to pursue her first Masters at the Central European University before moving onto her second Masters in War Studies at King’s College London, where she is currently a student.
Sahar introduces herself as a ‘feminist who’s navigating her way between activism and academia’—a journey that has seen her produce short films as well as becoming a prominent social commentator. During her relatively short, but impactful career, Sahar has directed two short films, one called ‘- this is Kabul’ and the other ‘Do not trust my silence’, with the latter winning a best film prize at an Italian short-film festival. Both films seek to challenge the position Afghan women and girls hold in that society. More recently, Sahar has published articles that seek to highlight the struggle of women and girls in her homeland, an issue particularly relevant now that the Taliban has returned to power.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Life of a child refugee
Kabul during the ‘peaceful’ years
Answering the call of activism
Failure of ‘black and white’ narratives
Defining feminism
Role models that influenced Sahar
The story of ‘Do not trust my silence’
Lived experience of women and girls in Afghanistan
Camera as a weapon against inequality and abuse
Taliban attack on Sahar’s university
Losing her mother and father
Scars of war and importance of legitimising emotions
The current situation in Afghanistan
The power of individual action
Sahar mentioned a program, ‘Sahar Speaks’, that introduced her to the power of the camera. That same program has recently helped resettle two dozen alumnae in host nations around the globe. You can find out more about their struggles and help nurture their journalism careers at the following link:
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/resettle-afghan-women-sahar-speaks-reporters 

27. Dr Ghassan Jawad Kadhim - Still ‘The Last Optimist In Baghdad‘?

My guest today is Dr Ghassan Jawad Kadhim, who is a political advisor and analyst of politics of the Middle East. His expertise lies in his own homeland, Iraq, where he has spent nearly twenty years supporting dialogue and development. He has worked extensively with local as well as international actors on diverse projects seeking to promote national reconciliation, co-existence, and peacebuilding. He has served as an adviser on anti-corruption, security, and political stability.
Ghassan is one of those people who seems to know everyone and is never far from decision makers. His enthusiasm to get things done has been publicly recognised in a book written about his life and contribution to Iraq by Dr Brian Brivati, a British historian, in his 2016 book ‘The Last Optimist In Baghdad’.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Becoming the ‘Key-maker’
Ghassan’s personal experience of torture at the hands of his own countrymen
The power of perspective in shaping narratives
The complexity of Iraq
The progressive destabilisation of Iraq over decades
Issues with domestic leaders and why they are stifling progress
Complexity of governance in Iraq
The birth and impact of ISIS
Interests of regional and global actors
Possible ‘redrawing’ of maps of Iraq and the region
Was the invasion of 2003 worth it?
The ‘curse’ of oil
What the future holds for Iraq

26. LTCOL Dave Grossman - On killing, combat, sleep, ’blind spots’ and everything else in between

Today, my guest is LTCOL Dave Grossman. He requires very little introduction, as I’m sure most of my audience will be intimately familiar with his books, most notably the one that has revolutionised the way we think and talk about combat. The book is of course ‘On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society’, which was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize; has been translated into multiple languages; is on the US Marine Corps Commandant’s Required Reading List; and is required reading at the FBI academy and numerous other academies and colleges around the world.
He is now the director of the ‘Killology Research Group’ and is on the road almost 300 days a year, training elite military and law enforcement organisations worldwide about the reality of combat.
During our chat, we discussed a range of topics, including
Non-firers in combat and how we made killing a conditioned response
How anonymity can enable violence and the importance of non-verbal communication
The logic behind the term ‘killology’
What LTCOL Grossman means by the phrase ‘no pity party, no macho man’
Sleep deprivation and its effects on our societies
The issue with high doses of caffeine in energy drinks 
The impact of sleep deprivation on ethical decision making in soldiers and first responders
Social blind spots and how they impact our decision making
The blind spot of creating a generation desensitised to violence and war
How medical technology decreases murder and death rate, and thereby hides an increase in violence
How otherwise good people come to do bad things, particularly in war
‘Killing enabling factors’ and how they can lead to atrocities
‘The virus of violent crime’ and its implications for our future
The need to understand causes of violence, not means to carry it out
The power and danger of information
Since I’ve barely scratched the surface of LTCOL Grossman’s extensive biography, you can find an extended version here. You can find a list of other books he has written over the years, including the two mentioned in our chat—'On Combat' and 'Assassination Generation'—here.

25. Dr Mike Martin & Dr Christopher Ankersen - Afghanistan Update and Future

Today, I’m speaking with Dr Mike Martin and Dr Christopher Ankersen. I have spoken with Mike at the beginning of this crisis (link here) as well as a few months back (link here). Suffice to say that he is considered an expert on Afghanistan and is the author of the book ‘An Intimate War’, considered by many as the most authoritative book on the political, social and economic dynamics of Afghanistan.
Dr Christopher Ankersen is an Associate Professor at the Centre for Global Affairs at NYU. Prior to joining NYU, he enjoyed a colourful and eclectic career which includes being a security adviser for the UN, as well as serving in the Canadian Armed Forces for more than a decade. Throughout his career he has taught at the London School of Economics, the London Centre for International Relations, King’s College London, Carleton University, and the Royal Military College of Canada. He has also lectured at staff colleges in Canada, Australia, and Denmark. A link to his full bio is here.
Mike and Christopher join me on Saturday the 28th of August, just before 0500h Kabul time, to discuss the ongoing situation in Afghanistan and its implications for the region and the world. 
You can find Mike's and Christopher's article titled 'The Taliban, not the West, won Afghanistan's technological war', here.

24. Hizbullah Khan - On the current situation and the future of Afghanistan

Today, I once again spoke with Hizbullah, an Afghan security analyst and journalist, who remains in Kabul. We recorded our first discussion on 17th of August, only a day after the Taliban took control of Kabul where we discussed how we got to where we are now (you can access that episode here). Today, we spoke about the current situation and what the future might hold for the people of Afghanistan.

23. Ehsaan - The Life of a Coalition Interpreter in Afghanistan

Today, I spoke with Ehsaan who came to Australia in December 2013 as a refugee from Afghanistan. He worked as an interpreter first for the Americans, then the Dutch and finally for Australian forces from 2009- 2013, He was ultimately resettled to Australia with his family due to an increasing threat to his life. He joins me today to discuss the reality faced by many of those who have worked with Australians and other coalition forces over the past 20 years. Ehsaan is someone who has personally experienced the fear and uncertainty that many are going through in Afghanistan today. During our chat, I use only his first name and do not talk about where he is from directly, as he still has family on the ground, whose safety remains uncertain.
 
 

22. Hizbullah Khan - Situation in Afghanistan as seen by a local analyst and journalist

This morning I spoke with Hizbullah Khan, a journalist and political analyst, who has been writing about the war and terrorism in Afghanistan since 2014. He has reported for outlets like the BBC World, The Independent, The Diplomat, The Globe Post and many other global publications. He joins me on the morning of 17th of August from Kabul, where it’s a few hours past midnight, to discuss the unfolding situation.

21. Dr Kay Danes - On Interpreters and Locally Employed Staff stuck in Kabul

*** Before reading the rest of the show notes, keep in mind that, as at 21st of Nov, Kay and her team have successfully assisted over 3500 Afghan-Australian visa holders from Afghanistan. Keep this amazing feat in the back of your mind while your read the notes and listen to the episode.***
My guest today is Dr Kay Danes, OAM. She is the recipient of the Medal of the Order of Australia for her service to the international and Australian community in human rights & social justice. 
Kay has a PhD (Law & Justice) and her thesis explored the evolving professionalisation of the Australian Humanitarian sector. She also holds a Masters degree (Human Rights), and varying professional qualifications in Business Administration, Security and Law.
Her 25-year security and humanitarian career has spanned across Australian and foreign government departments, humanitarian, and private sector organisations in armed conflicts, disasters, and other complex emergencies.
Kay is also extensively connected to the ADF. She is the spouse of an SAS Veteran who has served 43 years in the ADF/SOCOMD and was Regimental Sergeant Major of two Special Operations Task Group rotations in Afghanistan.
More recently, Kay’s work in Afghanistan has been recognised by Australian and Foreign Officials as an integral part of a national debate on Australia’s commitment to Afghanistan. 
Today she advocates for the 196 Australian Embassy staff seeking protection and evacuation from Kabul. Given the current situation in Afghanistan, hers is an important voice representing those who helped the Australian effort over the past 20 years. 

20. Dr Mike Martin - Update on unfolding situation in Afghanistan

Today, I spoke with Dr Mike Martin about the current situation in Afghanistan. As there is a lot of international interest in the unfolding crisis, I am releasing the episode slightly ahead of my regular publishing cycle and only two hours since recording.
You can hear Dr Mike’s full bio in our previous episode linked below as well as through his own website, which is also linked below. In short, Dr Mike has spent years studying Afghanistan, served there as a British Army Officer, did his PhD on British involvement in Helmand, is a fluent Pashto speaker and is the author of the book ‘An Intimate War’, considered by many Afghanistan experts as the most-authoritative book on the dynamics and true nature of conflict in this part of the world.
You can listen to our previous episode here, find out more about Mike’s work here and follow his Twitter feed @ThreshedThought.
 
 

19. David Livingstone Smith - On Dehumanisation

My guest today is David Livingstone Smith, who is a Professor of Philosophy at the University of New England.
He has authored nine books with his more recent titles focusing on dehumanisation, race, and propaganda. His 2011 ‘Less Than Human: Why We Demean, Enslave and Exterminate Others’ won the 2012 Anisfield-Wolf award for nonfiction. David’s most recent book ‘On Inhumanity: Dehumanization and How to Resist It’ was published by Oxford University Press in 2020, and his tenth book, ‘Making Monsters: The Uncanny Power of Dehumanization’ will be published by Harvard University Press later this year.
David is an interdisciplinary scholar, whose publications are cited not only by other philosophers, but also by historians, legal scholars, psychologists, and anthropologists. He has been featured in prime-time television documentaries, is often interviewed and cited in the national and international media and was a guest at the G20 economic summit in 2012.
As many listeners will know, David is a leading thinker in this field, and has influenced much of our understanding of dehumanisation. We had a wide-ranging discussion and covered topics such as:
David’s motivation behind his research focus
Race as a cultural construct
The view one is ‘marinated’ in, is what one perceives as ‘real’
Different races vs. human variation
Race vs. Ethnicity
Assigning values to lives and the psychological cost of it
Overcoming the resistance to killing in war
Racilising and Dehumanisation as a protective mechanism in war
The cost of desensitisation to killing
Definition of dehumanisation
Psychological, political and social dimensions of dehumanisation
Why we’re all vulnerable to the process of dehumanisation
Dehumanisation is not a choice, but something that happens to us
The power of the environment and social forces
The need to assist soldiers ‘cleanse’ after killing on battlefields
The need to understand why atrocities in war occur
The ‘Essence’ of being human
‘Making Monsters’
The need to face our ‘past’ to understand our ‘today’
If you've enjoyed this episode, I would appreciate it if you could share it and tag @thevoicesofwar so that I can say hello.

18. Shannon E French - On ’The Code of the Warrior’ and Ethics of War

My guest today is Professor Shannon E. French from Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) where she is also the Inamori Professor in Ethics, and the Director of the Inamori International Center for Ethics and Excellence. Prior to her current role, she taught for 11 years at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, where she was a tenured member of the Ethics department and Associate Chair of the division of Leadership, Ethics, and Law.
Shannon’s primary research field is military ethics, with a special focus on conduct of war issues, ethical leadership, command climate, sacrifice and responsibility, warrior transitions, ethical responses to terrorism, the future of warfare, and emerging military technology, including Artificial Intelligence. Her publications include ‘The Code of the Warrior: Exploring Warrior Values, Past and Present’, which we discussed today, as well as a number of edited volumes, book chapters and peer-reviewed articles on military ethics. You can read Shannon's full biography here.
Some of the topics we covered are:
Shannon's entry into the field of military ethics
Background to the 'Code of the Warrior'
Common 'codes' among warriors across cultures
The embodied identity of the 'warrior' 
Our collective responsibility towards our 'warriors' 
Given how we fight wars today, are 'war crimes' and ethical demise inevitable? 
Issue of the 'Supreme Emergency' 
The need to focus on civilians 
Interests vs Values as reasons for war
Moral injury and 'death before dishonour' 
How do we categorise 'terrorists'?
Should we fight 'evil with evil'?
Shannon's new project on military ethics and AI 
I think this is one of the most important conversation I've had so far as it goes to the core of the reality of military service, particularly as it relates to the ongoing War on Terror. I would love to hear what you think so tag the show using the handle @thevoicesofwar on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.  
 

17. Will Yates and Joe McCleary - On Trial for War Crimes: A Soldier’s Experience

My guests today are Will Yates and Joe McCleary. Will is a freelance writer, documentary producer and investigative researcher for television, film and radio with more than 18 years’ experience producing factual programming for outlets such as The National Geographic, BBC and the History Channel. Throughout his career, he has spent many years investigating the war in Iraq and recently published his first book titled ‘War Trials: Investigation of a Soldier and the Trauma of Iraq’.
The book is a true account of Joe’s time serving in Iraq as a British soldier in 2003 and his role in the tragic death of a 15-year-old Iraqi boy, which lead to multiple war crimes court cases of which he was ultimately cleared. Throughout the ordeal, Joe battled with severe mental health issues and has tried to take his own life numerous times. This book is the first time that a British soldier accused of war crimes in Iraq has opened up in an unguarded and in-depth manner. As a result, the book is a deeply moving account of the true nature of war and explores themes of military conduct and responsibilities of those serving in war zones.
Will and Joe join me today to discuss the book as well as to dive deeper into some of the issues Joe’s war experience has brought to light. Some of the topics we covered are:
How and why the book came about
Details of the tragic incident
Reality of soldiering in Basra during the first days of the invasion
The importance of shedding light on soldiers’ experience in war
Gradual desensitisation to human suffering
Looting in Basra and second order effects of adaptability and initiative
Life as an accused ‘war criminal’ and ensuing mental health challenges
Investigations and the trial
Life after the Army
As you will hear, Joe’s descriptions of soldiering as well as mental health challenges he faced are very emotional and visceral. Hence, this episode may be quite disturbing to some listeners.
Lastly, for my Australian audience, military and otherwise, if you or someone you know are suffering, there is help available. Below are some of the many agencies offering support. For my audience around the world, please look for help. Even if there are no services in your area, the internet has opened up many previously unavailable avenues. As Joe says in the episode, you are important, so please take the necessary first step and look out for yourself and each other.  
All-hours Support Line
(1800 628 036 / +612 9425 3878 if O/S)
 
1800 IMSICK
(1800 624 608)
 
Defence Community Organisation (DCO)
Defence Family Helpline
1800 624 608
http://www.defence.gov.au/dco/
 
Open Arms (VVCS)
1800 011 046
https://www.openarms.gov.au/
 
Lifeline
13 11 14
https://www.lifeline.org.au
 
Suicide Call back service
1300 659 467
https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au